Ep 55: Fight. Flight. Freeze. Fawn. What Your Body Is Trying to Tell You
Have you ever found yourself completely staring at a blank screen, unable to reply to emails or cross items off your to-do list, and immediately labeled it as laziness or procrastination? I’m pulling back the curtain on a deeply personal reveal. Recently, I found myself sliding from a state of high anxiety and over functioning straight into a deep freeze mode, and I didn't even notice the shift until I started explaining the nervous system to someone else.
In this episode, I talk about what it actually means when our bodies hit a wall. As Black women and high-achievers, we are conditioned to stay in prolonged states of survival because our environments rarely feel safe enough to prioritize deep peace or rest. I break down the four primary nervous system responses: Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn, and how they show up disguised as productivity, perpetual busyness, avoidance, and people-pleasing. You aren't broken, and you aren't lazy. Your body is simply doing exactly what it learned to do to protect you. Let’s talk about how to meet ourselves with radical self-compassion and move through it in real time.
Chapters
(00:00) - The Journey of Healing and Growth
(02:49) - Understanding the Nervous System's Response
(05:45) - Navigating Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn Modes
(09:03) - Personal Experience with Overwhelm
(11:45) - Recognizing and Addressing Overwhelm
(15:12) - Seeking Support and Making Changes
(18:06) - The Importance of Self-Compassion
(21:08) - Finding the Right Support
(24:03) - Communicating Needs and Setting Boundaries
(26:55) - Creating Opportunities for Rest and Growth
Key Takeaways
• Fight, flight, freeze, and fawn are survival responses, not personality flaws.
• High achievers often stay in survival mode so long that it begins to feel normal.
• Freeze mode isn't laziness. Sometimes it's your nervous system hitting a wall.
• Your body is always communicating with you.
• Healing isn't about forcing yourself through overwhelm. It's about learning what your body needs next.
• Sometimes the most healing thing you can do is ask for different support.
• You don't have to be completely healed before you can continue growing.
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Asha (00:00.13)
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of Because I've Healed, which is really a misnomer. I remember I named it and I thought, yeah, these are all the things that I've been able to do because I've done some healing. But then along the way I realized we're always healing. We're always growing. And so I really should change the name to Because I'm Healing. I just need to do it. I just need to do it. So if you feel like you're still in progress, in process, that you've done a lot of work.
And you still got more to do. Welcome to being human. You're totally normal. And I want to make sure that you understand that. Today I'm talking a little bit more about some personal stuff. I actually recorded a podcast episode about this last week. And when I went back to listen to the recording, I just heard these beep, beep, beep. It was terrible. Couldn't hear my words at all. I thought, okay, this recording.
even though I was frustrated, must have been for me to practice getting it out. And then as I decided to just let it go because I couldn't do anything with the recording anyway, I subconsciously was thinking about pieces and information that would actually be more useful. So it's actually great that that first episode didn't work out because now I have more information to actually offer you to help you with where you are. What am I talking about? I am talking about being in fight
Flight fawn or freeze mode. I found myself unbeknownst to me or unaware that I had shifted from fight or flight mode into freeze mode. And I was bothered by it. I was upset about it. Not because I was angry, but I was upset because I did not notice the shift. Well, first of all, I was upset because
I still find myself in fight or flight mode, even though I have the tools and I understand logically what's going on, and I haven't been able to get my body out of the fight or flight mode, that high anxiety mode. And then I felt really, really sad, really emotional, and ended up crying on the last recording because here I was in freeze mode and I just had so much compassion for myself as if I was like my higher self was looking down on my stressed out self and just had so much compassion.
Asha (02:25.624)
For this person for me who's doing all of these things and trying her best and is still feeling overwhelmed. And and I felt bad because I didn't recognize that I was in that mode until I started telling somebody else about the nervous system and these four modes that we go through. So I am sharing this episode as a personal reveal.
Not just so you all know where I am, but that's helpful too. But so I can actually share with you what I am doing in real time to help move myself through. So I'm not talking just in theory, I'm going to be sharing what's happening in practice, which I think will be helpful and useful for you as well. So let me back up. Let me talk about these four modes. Our nervous system is doing everything it can to keep us alive. And when it perceives danger.
It will run through or into one or a combination of these modes, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. You've probably heard of them before. And if you find yourself in any one of these modes, I want you to know that it's normal. Your body is doing everything that it can to protect you because it perceives a threat. What is not actually supposed to happen for us is we're not supposed to stay in these states for a prolonged period of time.
And this is where we, as black women, people of color, women of color, black men, we stay in these these modes for longer than what we are supposed to because our environments are not conducive to us being at peace or being at rest. And that starts to create these chronic illnesses, chronic issues, stomach problems, autoimmune disorders, stress, this inability to take a deep breath.
breath and to recognize that we are safe. So let me describe these four modes. Fight mode. Fight mode is when you overfunction. You can get irritable, snappy, you handle everything because if you don't, it feels like life is falling apart and you certainly can't delegate because who's gonna do it as well as you can? Nobody, you can't rest and you're running on adrenaline and probably calling it productivity. Fight mode
Asha (04:47.338)
Is probably what helped us be successful in school and often helps us be successful at work because we're constantly staying on top of things so nothing falls apart. And I know you have probably said in your life, I could give this to somebody else, but I'm gonna end up doing it anyway. I could do this, but they're not as gonna do it as well as me, and so I might as well do it. That is fight mode. You are controlling, and even though it may not.
Come across to you as being snappy or irritable, it actually prevents anybody from being able to help you because you feel safer if you just do it yourself. Flight mode is when you stay perpetually busy. You have a full calendar, you're always moving, you're always planning the next thing, and sitting still feels dangerous. And you may not recognize it as feeling dangerous, but you'll have this inability to sit still, to slow down.
Because if you slow down, you might actually have to feel something. I remember being in flight mode and didn't know it a few years ago because I was doing this, I was on this committee, I was making this commitment, I was doing this and doing that, and I recognized that I was tired, but when I would sit down and rest, I would feel anxious because the feelings wanted to come up and I didn't want to feel the feelings because it was easier for me to not feel them. So I just stayed in motion.
This might feel similar to you, might be able to relate. Freeze mode is the one that kind of confuses us. And this is where I found myself last week and have just sort of started to move out of freeze mode, kind of still there. But anyway, let me just tell you. This is where we just can't do anything. This is where you might call it laziness or procrastination.
But it's actually your nervous system hitting a wall. You know what you need to do. You probably know how you need to do it, but you just can't get yourself to do it. I was in freeze mode when I would see emails coming through from the school that I was teaching at, and I just couldn't respond. I didn't want to respond. I was calling it procrastination, but now I recognize that it was probably my over my call it immune system, my nervous system on overdrive.
Asha (07:10.368)
I am in freeze mode again right now, starting to move out of it, but I am in freeze mode again right now because I've got all these emails coming through, these things happening in the business, which are great, fantastic, the things that I want, and I'm overwhelmed. I just can't get myself to do it. And I know that I need to, but I just end up closing my computer and like sitting there because I just can't do anything. It turns out that you're not broken.
You're just frozen because your body is trying to keep you safe. And the last one is fawn. if you are a people pleaser or people pleaser in recovery like me, this one is something that you do regularly or have done regularly. And this is what a lot of us women do. This is when we manage the threat by making sure that everyone around us is comfortable. We say yes when we really mean no. We play small, we shrink.
And we perform, we say that we're okay when we're really not, and we become whoever the room needs us to be. Most of us learn how to do this in childhood, where either we have parents who are taking up a lot of space or maybe abusive, and we learn how to manage the situation so we don't cause greater problems. We learn how to do this at work with people who are volatile or emotionally
unsafe or bosses who are really demanding. We say yes because we don't feel like we can say no, because we're trying to keep our jobs, we're trying to keep our livelihood, we're trying to minimize any adverse outcome that we may have. And you can find yourself in flight mode and fawning mode. You can find yourself freezing and also
People pleasing. Maybe you can't do the work, but you're telling people yes, yes, yes, it's okay. It's gonna be okay. Yes, I can handle it, but then you can't actually deliver. But here's what's important to understand: these are not character flaws and these aren't permanent conditions. They are survival responses. They are survival responses that your nervous system learned and they probably helped you. They did help you at some point. They worked, which is why you did them. They kept you safe.
Asha (09:31.618)
They kept you loved, maybe employed or included. But the problem is that you're still running these same patterns, even though the original threat is long gone. So maybe you are fawning because you feel like you need to people please to stay in community, but you haven't realized that your community actually really loves and cares about you and does not want you to overwork, but wants you to be okay.
We deploy these same strategies when we're rem reminded of a time, but they're not actually working for us and they're not serving us anymore. But oftentimes we don't know how to move through these because we haven't slowed down long enough to realize, are these skills, these tactics, these strategies actually working for us or do we need to do something different?
So I want you to think about where you are right now, which one feels like it resonates with you, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn? Which combination feels like it's resonating with you? And as you take an inhale in and an exhale out.
What do you feel like is not working that maybe you're not sure how to change? So I'm gonna share with you my story about what's been happening with me the last few weeks. I have been simultaneously energized and motivated and also in freeze mode. Previously, a couple months ago, I was in fight or flight mode, really in fight mode, where I was doing everything I could, but also feeling really anxious, wake up early.
start thinking about the things that I need to do for the day, not sleeping well, going through my to-do list, that like this state of anxiousness where I couldn't take a deep breath. And unfortunately, I'd been feeling like this for so long that it became normal in the sense that I was accustomed to it, but not normal in the sense that that's how my body was supposed to operate. I've been communicating with a lot of you on Threads and saying that I see you, and if you're feeling overwhelmed.
Asha (11:45.708)
You know, I just want to recognize that. And a number of you have been saying, I feel like I could cry right now. I feel like I could just fall apart right now. Like I just need something. And that is probably the fight mode and the freeze mode coming together. So what was happening for me is I was in that fight or flight mode, but then I moved into this fawn mode. I started getting more emails, more inquiries. They come in in Portuguese, they come in in English.
They come in sometimes in Spanish. That's great. I love it. But I notice that when there's a request that's made of me where I have to pull out my calendar, coordinate dates, where I have to think in another language, where I have to do something for somebody who wants me to do something for them, but I need them to do something for me. It just feels so overwhelming right now. So overwhelming. It's like I I just I can't do anything for anybody else right now because
I am just so overwhelmed. I don't know what other word to use, but it's like I feel I imagine this is how moms feel when they've been breastfeeding. The child is cranky, their older child needs something from them, their parent who's aging is like, Can you make this appointment from me? And you're like, nah, I can't do anything for anybody else, but everybody needs something from me. That's how I have been feeling, and it is not a good feeling.
And I even felt this way, having hired a couple of people to work with me, because even sometimes they need stuff from me, even though they're supposed to be helping me, which is understandable. They need information from me to be able to do the job that I've asked them to do. But depending on their level of autonomy, some people need more guidance than others. And I felt really, really overwhelmed.
And I just like, I just wanted to close the computer, not talk to anybody, and just sit there and not have anybody need anything from me. So once I recognized that I was in this freeze mode, I I definitely felt bad for myself for a minute. I felt a lot of compassion. I said, okay, what do I need right now? So I recognized the feeling that was going on, or I recognize the yeah, the feelings, what I was experiencing. And then I asked myself, okay, Asha, what do you need right now? Immediately I needed to just take a quick break.
Asha (14:12.684)
And to take a deep breath and to just allow myself to admit and acknowledge that I was overwhelmed. And then I wanted to figure out what support that I needed, like what was taxing me, what was asking me too much, what was asking more than I had the capacity to give. And I recognized that yes, I had hired some people to help or I had delegated some things, but it wasn't giving me the support that I needed.
And so I decided to make some changes. First, I decided to make some changes in the roles that I wanted people to play. And it actually required me to dive in a little bit more. So I had to say, okay, this is a little overwhelming, but I need to actually dive in and see what's working, what's not working. Is it a systems thing? Is it a capacity thing? Is it a communication thing? What do I actually need? And I had to make myself
Ask for a different kind of help. And for those of us who are very familiar with fight, we want to do everything on our own. And so it required me to really get real and to say, this assistance isn't working, or this pattern, or this way that we are doing things, that I am doing something is not working. And I need something different. So I had to acknowledge that it wasn't working. And then I had to.
Ask for what I needed, what I wanted to be different. And here's the thing, you don't always know exactly what's gonna work, but you should try. And sometimes I think we stop because we don't know if this is gonna be the answer, but we have enough information to know that what we're doing in the moment is not working. And so it's worth experimenting and trying something different so that you can see whether it is the answer or not. And if it's not, then you experiment and try something else. So I had to really assess what was happening around me.
What was the support that I was getting? What wasn't working? And what I was going to need to change. So that was step one. Some of that I could do just internally with the folks and the systems that I was working with already. But step two was to say that this is not working and to make a change in the support that I have around me. And that, my friends, is uncomfortable. Why? Because of fawn mode. And because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
Asha (16:39.71)
And because I want to be able to, you know, work everything out. And because, because, because, because all the reasons why sometimes this confrontation is uncomfortable for us. But I had to really say, okay, this is actually not working and it's causing me more stress. And here's the thing about people pleasers is that we keep the peace for everyone but ourselves. But that was stressing me out. And instead of addressing it, I was experiencing that freeze mode because I didn't want to be.
Impolite, I didn't want to be rude, I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but it was overwhelming, it was stressful, it wasn't working for me. So I am making some changes in personnel. And at the time of this recording, I've decided what is going to happen, but those changes haven't been implemented yet. So I am making a change. Now, in your life, you can look at what help you need, and it may be
like personal assistant help, virtual assistant help, or maybe more help with the kids, maybe different kind of help at work. but I really want to encourage you to see what it is that you need to help alleviate the burden on you. I hired someone to help me go through my emails, which it was actually really hard for me. I was thinking it was hard for me to give up control of the emails and I realized that it wasn't actually that hard. It was I didn't trust the person.
The people who had originally asked to go through the emails, not because they were bad people or anything like that or that they weren't skilled, that I knew that I needed a certain skill set to actually alleviate the burden. I needed someone who could respond and not just flag stuff for me to respond to because that's the same as me checking my own emails. And so now I have somebody who's going through my emails who can speak English and Portuguese and Spanish and can
actually respond to some of the things that just need to be responded to so that I don't have to go back through and do it later. I am changing what else am I doing?
Asha (18:48.918)
In terms of other support, I told you all I think a couple weeks ago that my back has been acting funny. Typically, my back will go out, but it'll it'll take only about a week to get back to like 90%. This last time it's taken five weeks, probably. It's been since I came back from South Tomei, so it's been a little while. And I was doing all the things that I normally did. And, you know, my friends, you should go to the gym, you should get a massage, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, yes, I know, but I knew that I needed some rest, but I also knew that it wasn't working. And my back issues, I felt like this time were not just physical, they were also energetic. And the back can represent the support that you have or that you need, right? It's your core, it's your center, it's everything. You can't if you have a bad back, it's really hard to do anything. And it feels very miserable when you when you can't use your back, because everything comes from that center.
And so I decided that I needed more help with that. So I met with an acupuncturist who also does massage. And she actually was one of the people who pointed out that my nervous system was the reason why I'm not sleeping well. Because I'm still in fight or flight mode or it's still trying to regulate itself. And she said it and was like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. But I just needed someone else to say that and to recognize it. And that helped me.
see where I need to make some changes. So I'm working with a new acupuncturist and massage therapist. And I had been to an acupuncturist before and it just even here in Lisbon and it just wasn't giving. And so I decided that I was going to meet with as many people as I needed to actually feel the support that I need. And I decided that I'm to work with a friend of mine who's a physiotherapist, which I think is like a physical therapist in the US.
But who also does energy work. And so we're going to be working together. Today is my first consultation. And when I tell you, I'm excited, like I'm actually excited to get to do this work because it's going to be physical therapy kind of work, but it's also going to be energetic work. And I'm so excited for that because she can't because I know that it's not just the physical pain that I'm experiencing, but that the physical pain is some kind of manifestation from my emotional body.
Asha (21:08.76)
That is telling me that something is not right and that I need to address the issue. But sometimes when it's in you, you need an outside source to help you reflect and see what is going on. So I am excited to work with my friend who's gonna help me through this because I know that it's gonna be a different kind of work that I've done before because now I need a different kind of support, even though the manifestation is familiar. The back pain is familiar, but this is different. So I'm taking my time.
To find the right people to work with to get the support that I need. The third thing that I'm doing to help myself out of this freeze mode and to regulate my nervous system is to really be gentle with myself and to really communicate when I can't do something. Normally I try and power through and force myself to do it, but now I have the people and the support around me that I can say I've been saying, I just
I can't do it right now. I'm in I'm in this I'm in decision fatigue mode. I'm in overwhelm right now. Can you jump in and do something about this? Can I get back to you later? So I'm not trying to pretend like it's okay and I'm actually communicating with people that I'm not necessarily okay or that I don't have the capacity to do it right now. I'm also really looking at where.
I need to show up and where I can have somebody else do it for me. For example, at the studios, at the studios, at the studio on Tuesday nights, we have salsa every night, every Tuesday. I love salsa. It's Cuban salsa. It's near and dear to my heart. It's the most well attended event at the studio. I open the studio, the instructor and the DJ comes in and we have a good time and we close at eleven. And I've been staying until
11 to help close and it is draining me. It I have to be back at the studio the next day at 10 a.m. Which I know all my American folks like that's not early at all because it's not that early, but there's something that happens with me. The energy drain from Tuesday night into Wednesday morning when I have to be back at the studio and be on all day for co-working. It sets me up to be exhausted for the rest of the week.
Asha (23:33.58)
Like exhausted and miserable for the rest of the week. Part of what happens is that I'm managing the space, even though I'll dance a couple dances and I love the event. I'm managing the space. And I when I get home, I need like an hour, an hour and a half to just calm down from what was happening. So I get home at like 11:45. By the time I take a shower, relax, and get into bed, it's now one o'clock in the morning, sometimes one thirty. I might be in bed a little bit earlier.
But it just takes some time for that energy to dissipate. And then I don't sleep well. So I'm not sleeping all the way throughout the night. I wake up multiple times. Then I might wake up at six. And now it's only been like five hours, four and a half, five hours, five and a half hours of sleep. It's not enough sleep. Maybe I'll roll over and go back to sleep from 7:30 to 8:30. And then I wake up and I'm even more tired. And it just sets me up to have a really unproductive.
And a really challenging rest of the week. And because it's Tuesday, that's a lot of days, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday to go through and to not be rested. So a friend of mine reminded me just the other day, he's like, hey, you trust the folks who are doing it. They've opened for you and closed for you before. You don't have to be there. You're providing the space. You don't have to also be there to manage the event. I was like, yeah, but I kind of feel bad. He's like, Yeah, you don't have to feel bad.
Your part is not to run this event, that's their event. Your part is to provide the space at the studio and you do that all the time. So it's okay to leave early before they close. It's okay to do that. And it just really shifted that, yeah, you're right, actually. I really trust the people I'm working with. They've opened and closed when I've been out of town. We've had no issues. I again, I trust them. They're great at what they do.
Yeah, I could actually ask if it's okay if they feel okay with me leaving at like 10 to go home or even 930 so that I don't have to close. And I don't actually have to ask them for permission. I could just tell them because I'm the boss. I'm in charge of my own life and I can make the decisions that work for me. But I will have that conversation with them because it is not actually helping me to.
Asha (25:56.974)
stay there longer. It is draining me energetically. And like actually physically, it is draining on me now. So I am also making changes in the way that I do things, the way that I physically show up because I need to cocoon and take care of me a little bit more. And I would say maybe this is number four, or maybe this is still tied to the last one. I'm just being honest about where I am. I'm not pretending like I'm okay.
I checked in with a friend the other day and I genuinely wanted to know how she was doing and she's asking me back. I'm saying, you know what? I'm actually really tired. I'm drained. Things are shifting. I'm excited about some stuff, but I'm really tired. But that's just where I am. And I think we hesitate, particularly as women, to give a real update about where we are because we don't want to be negative. We don't want to complain. We want to live in abundance mode, but we can also accept the reality of where we are because it allows us to make changes to move forward and out of
The place that we are. Out of this, out of this recognition, I am also sharing where I am with other people, and other people are resonating with that. And it's making me realize that we all need a retreat for rest. We all need a space to rest. And because I'm sharing this, and I am a spaceholder and a retreat creator, people are asking me to.
create retreats around this and to give more information around this. And it's turning into a business idea or a business activity that I'm not acting on yet, but I'm planting the seeds and will plan for in the future. And so it's really fascinating to me how this brutal honesty about where I am, about what I need, about just sharing is also giving back to me in a way that I hadn't necessarily imagined. I don't need to be
I don't need to be healed. I don't need to be whole to continue to grow, to continue to expand, to continue to make money, to continue to do the things that I need, because the things that I need are also the things that other people need. And me taking care of myself is an example. And it's a beautiful example for people who also need permission to take care of themselves. So I hope that lands with you. There's a couple of
Asha (28:19.552)
Opportunities that I have for you to work with me through this. And the beautiful thing is that because we're always in motion and because we cycle through these activities, I will also be in the midst of some of these things with you as well. But I know what needs to be done to get me and you to move through. So being in the midst of a heightened nervous system is not a problem.
It's not a problem at all. It's your body doing exactly what it needs to do to protect you. The skill is in recognizing what is needed and then doing, giving yourself what is needed to move through. So I have a couple opportunities for you to learn how to do that. One of them being RESET We are putting more dates on the calendar for the fall. There are some online six-week opportunities to work with me through RESET, which is for high achieving.
Black women and women of color who are burned out, who are exhausted, who feel like they've done everything right and there's still something missing for you, who just needs to sit down, make some things shake in your life so you can get the space that you need to take care of yourself. That's you. That was me. RESET is a great opportunity for you. I'm running a couple of more six-week opportunities and
I am planning a four or five day RESET retreat in the fall in Lisbon if you want to couple it with a trip to Europe to really help you rest. So check the show notes for the link, but also the URL is www.ashasplacelisbon.com/ RESET, and you will find the information about the upcoming opportunities. And the
Other thing that I'm doing is I'm getting ready to run another round of the intuitive reader training. Now I haven't talked to you much about this because I've been running this in another community, but this is the course that I took that taught me how to become an intuitive reader. It taught me how to understand my intuition. It taught me universal laws and principles of energy, and it taught me how to.
Asha (30:39.072)
Not just do energy readings for other people, but how to live my life in a way that flowed with the energy around me. And this is what started me on my journey for self healing and all ultimately led to the work that you see that I'm doing now. So be on the lookout. I don't have a link for that at the time of this recording, but you can check the show notes below to see if there's a link. I don't have it now.
The time that I'm speaking, but I am planning the next round of the intuitive reader course that will help you figure out how to understand your intuition. If you feel like you are already an intuitive person, that you get lots of reads, you see things, you hear things, but you don't know how to control it or what to do with it. This is a great course for you. Or if you want to tap into that because you keep getting little nudges, but you're not sure what to do, and you really just want to hone and develop your intuition. This is a great course for you as well.
Asha (31:39.052)
Alright, I think that is what I have for you today. If you want to connect, I am hanging out on Threads. I like Threads a lot better than any other social media platform that feels good for me. So that's where I am hanging out. My handle over there is @ashawilkersonesq. And send me a message, let me know what you think, leave a comment below this podcast episode, rate and review, share with a friend, do all the things.
And I will talk to you soon. Ciao ciao.